As a black man I am somewhat offended by equation of the gay marriage issue with the one of color. They are not the same.
People who want to marry their gay lover did not represent the ecomomic backbone that allowed European economies (this means all of them, Europe, Australia and the Americas) to dominate over all others. People who want to marry their gay lovers were not lynched as most of the population looked the other way. People who want to marry their gay lovers are not denied housing, education and the most of the same rights that the majority of the population enjoys. People who want to marry their gay lovers were not ripped from their homeland, made to serve an economy, while enduring substandard housing, healthcare and basic nutrtition. People who want to marry their gay lover have not had to endure flesh-ripping dogs, high-pressure firehoses, beatings and killings to gain their rights. They did not have to sit at the back of the bus, nor were they made to drink from specially designated water-fountains, eat at segregated lunch counters or denied the same opportunities that a more priveledged population did. No, they endured none of these gross injustices.
Does this mean I think they should have to go through the same experience? Obviously not. Nor does it mean that I don’t think that they should be denied any rights. But do I think gay marriage is the same as heterosexual marriage? No I do not. For one, gay marriage brings up the conception issue. Though certainly it is not the case of all of gay marriage–not everyone who marries wants children–the need for invitro-fertilization is increased. And yes, the whole babies coming from laboratories bothers me. We are already so removed from nature already that maybe it shouldn’t matter, but yes it bothers me to a great degree.
Beyond that gay marriage brings up other issues such as inheritance, divorce and child custody that have not been resolved. All of these need to be worked before many like me will wholly support it.
So no, I do not think right to gay marriage is the same as the right to worship as one wishes or just to live, love and fuck like everyone else. It is much more complicated and unresolved for me to throw myself on that sword. Work out the details, resolve unsettled issues, convince me that losing the rights we have all fought for are worth losing and I will support it. Until then I will not discriminate, but I will sit on the fence.
Inheritance, divorce, and child custody have all been fairly well resolved already- see the 50% divorce rate.
If children are a condition of marriage usually- why are 25% of children now born outside of wedlock? If more and more children are being born without marriage- then children are not nearly as important to marriage as you think.
Gays didn’t have to suffer through slavery- instead they had to live secret lives of desperation. To this day, gays risk being attacked and are killed for being who they are (Matthew Shepard).
If you could were to come back into society not as a black man, but as a white gay man- would you be so quick to say that being gay offers no consequences?
I am not saying being gay does not come with consequences. I support gay rights. but supporting gay rights is not the same as not being sure about gay marriage. Not even the gay community is 100% behind it.
I understand that gays are still attacked. On that we need to discourage violence in all cases.
I also understand that everyone should fight for the equality of everyone. But I also know that gay marriage, in whatever form it takes, has more of a chance winning under a democratic regime than a right-wing theocracy. Democrats have continually asked blacks to take a back seat on many issues, assuming that blacks will vote Democratic anyway. is it too much for gays to understand that for them to get their wish for marriage they will need to take a calculated risk? I think not.
The Rolling Stone article shows that we are in desparate position; even when people like us vote against, enough of our votes can be stolen to sway an election. the only way we can combat this larceny is by gaining and keeping power and changing the laws that allow the larceny we have seen. Yes, I am willing to sacrifice gay marriage for a time to see that happen.
And, if a 50% divorce rate shows that marriage is not as important as it used to be, why should gay marriage matter at all?
I’ve done a lot of thinking and reading about it, and this is what I’ve come up with.
Do you think homosexuals are human beings?
If yes, then they are deserving of any and all rights that human beings deserve, including the right to marry freely and to whomever they wish.
It’s not complicated at all-in fact, it’s real fuckin’ basic.
i agree- real fuckin basic. Either you believe all people are equal or you don’t.
but you both miss the point. the point is not to fall for the bait that the theocracy is throwing at us. let the marriage amendment fail on its own. by doing nothing at this point, the american people get to see the hypocrisy for what it is. The issue will not go away, but it does need a more clear definition before there will be enough voters to support it. In the meantime. let’s make sure we can win the battles we can!
Does this mean you think I will sign Tim Eyman’s petition to repeal gay rights in our state. I hope not.
this has nothing to do with whether I think homosexuals are equal or not. It is about sacrifing ALL OF OUR RIGHTS FOR A POORLY DEFINED PLATFORM. And one that also risks offending the very people who in the long run will likely support it anyway.
It raises a larger issue. Focus. Our focus needs to be on winning elections at this point. Once we get sympathetic people in power, the debate can be had , compromises made and issues resolved. With a right-wing theocracy in power none of us wins, we all lose.
Who ever said decisions like these are easy?
I think if someone is trying to set a trap for you- then you should spring it. Let them open up the marriage debate. Let them try to pass an amendment. But when it comes time to ratify that amendment- you better be damn sure which side your voting on and not taking a wait and see attitude about it.